ground control to major tom

yes sir.

Have the Wild still sold out every game in their existence?

...thought I was on a baseball website...

1 other item for you to think over Mr. Greco....

The Wild have a season ticket holder base of 16,500 plus another 5-10,000 (not sure of the exact number as of right now) on a waiting list. They most definitely aren't hurting when it comes to fan support or cash.

Than how come they are 9th in home attendance?


http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2009

maybe cause the 8 teams ahead of them have bigger capacity's.

seriously, look at the numbers, and since you're in the fantasy baseball business it should be second nature to you....Wild are 4th in the league with an average attendance % of 102.8% capacity. it's not rocket science Mr. Greco.

am amused how this wbc discussion evolved into soccer , hockey , and nascar .

not quite as amusing as reading articles/opinions bashing an event by those who have never attended a single game , however .

everyone is entitled to an opinion .

from florida , mine is ==> j.c. romero esta cagado .

regards .

"Just because you have them as part of your package doesn't mean people watch it pal."

Paul, FYI, I have subscribed to the NHL "Center Ice" package for the past three years (the first year with Time Warner Cable, the last two with DirecTV.) I have gladly paid $ 149 to $ 169 per season NOT "as part of your package", but as a stand alone item, and it is worth every cent.

I get both visitor and away 'casts and at least half of the forty-plus games are in beautiful HD - the next best thing to being there.

"Popular"(ity) is in the eyes of the beholder. The NHL might not have the numbers or ratings of the NFL of MLB, but it does have its hardcore, passionate fan base - one that will never abandon the sport it follows devotedly.

hillbillies making left hand turns in cars built to make left hand turns is not a sport regardless of what it's sheep like followers say.

the only actual athletes in that nonsense is the pit crew. they actually do real work.

watching people with actual athletic ability play an actual sport is significantly appealing then watching cars go in circles.

however, it only makes sense that in this country everyone rather watch football and hillbillies than hockey or soccer...everything in this country is ass backwards. hell, we're the only country in the world that doesn't use the metric system. also, the general population of the US is one of the least intelligent of any of industrialized countries, and it gets worse every time new stats come out.

Than how come they are 9th in home attendance?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2009

See Invisible Man, you show how ignorant you are each time you type. NASCAR my friend is T-H-E, that's right T-H-E fastest growing sport here in this great country of ours.

So maybe you and your Hockey fans should take a page out of their book and understand the thrill seeking missile that is the left hand turn.

OH wait for it, wait for it, there goes Dale...VROOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM. YEE HAW!!! 10-4 good buddy

Look at the Wild...sold out every game...preseason, regular season, and playoffs since day 1....close to 400 straight sellouts at almost 60 bucks a ticket on average. Plus, the Minnesota State High School hockey tourney sells out that building as well.

It seats 18,064 but they pack in up to 19,100 or so.

the world's greatest athletes versus one of the most musically inept people ever?

Obviously the musically inept "rapper." same fools that like him watch American Karaoke every week and call in to vote for another terribly inept musician love that clown.

Sure, there are cities where attendance is bad, but that holds true for baseball as well, so your cherry-picking doesn't hold water. The WBC, as with soccer in this country means something to folks who are either foreign-born or of immediate foreign heritage. American baseball fans couldn't care less about the WBC and the impending NCAA "Tournament" will prove that to be so. Sorry, but I don't see it ever catching-on in the eyes of American baseball followers - ever.

Again, everyone opinions should be respected here, not trashed simply because one disagrees. Attend an NHL game and your opinion just might change.

And for the record, I LIKE YOU TOO!

Hockey would be a whole lot more popular if:

1, they had a commish that had a clue

2, if everyone had HD tvs and watched in hi def

3, most of all, if people like you with unjustifiable hatred for the game quit ripping it apart for no other reason then you don't get it.

However, the biggest problem in this country is that the general population is a bunch of morons on their best day. Something as stupid as hillbillies making left hand turns for hours on end shouldn't even be popular, but it is. The average American just doesn't get it, or much of anything really. That's why we're in the economic crisis we're in among other huge issues destroying this country.

WBC
SOCCER
NHL
Vanilla ICE

There is no WBNA website ?

Paul,

I'm really surprised at your vitriole concerning the NHL. Just because I personally cannot stand to watch soccer doesn't give me the license to rip apart the millions of fans who do like it - and just how popular has post-Pele pro soccer done in the contiguous forty-eight all these years since, huh?

FYI, I am a Rangers fan since 1960-'61. There have been good years and bad, but you know what?, the fans have come out regardless. Matter of fact, we're currently working on a sellout streak (18,200) that has reached one hundred and fifty-six games or four season's worth of home dates.

To be continued ---

Which is more popular ?

Just so everyone is clear. I LOVE YOU GUYS!!!!

ESPN2 and VERSUS ARE in a similar number of houses regardless if you believe it or not.

Just because you have them as part of your package doesn't mean people watch it pal.

See the ratings work by people actually watching what is on the TV when they change channels. It's pretty simple really.

You use a clicker or channel changer or remote control, whatever you want to call it. You then change the channel by using the numbers to goto that channel or the up and down buttons. If people don't do this and turn on VERSUS or Outdoor channel then you get NO ratings.

Pretty cool little concept I think.

BTW, just argument sake I grew up watching the 1980's Islander teams in Long Island. I like to watch at the arena's, but sorry pal, it's just not as popular as you think.

Timberwolves season tickets next year are $5 per game starting in row 5 in the upper level and $15 in the lower level.

No talent Basketball Association is a terrible league anyway, and basketball is just unwatchable as it is, but they must be thriving to offer those prices.

My earlier post explained the 90's. Ratings were down on these stations due to a slowed game. The game in 1997-2004 is much different than the game in 2009.

I have no idea what your point was here, but the Atlanta Falcons sold season tickets for about $100.00 before Vick came to town cause no one was going. Does this make the NFL a bad sport?

I make perfect sense, you just fail to realize that and push it aside because of your inexplicable hatred of hockey. ESPN2 and VERSUS ARE in a similar number of houses regardless if you believe it or not.

Quit ripping apart a game you clearly don't understand and actually buy a ticket and go to a game. Maybe if you attended a game, the light would go off in your head.

Come on Paul. Now you're being naive. Popularity limitations of hockey have to do with factors other than how exciting it is. The Commissioner sucks. They missed a full season. Bad marketing.

That doesn't mean the game takes less skill or should be watched by less people.

The NHL began to suffer in the late 90's with slowed play and the only solution was the lockout and a salary cap. This set them back several years, but events like the yearly outdoor game (which is better than the WBC) and a move to a better network when the current agreement is up will return Hockey to the middle of the top 4 sports ahead of basketball. (which has a much better marketing group)

I love Baseball, but watching Alex Ovechkin play is the most exciting sports on TV.

NHL had their chance on FOX, ESPN and NBC and NO ONE Watched!!! There is a reason the sport is hidden on the next to the WE channel.

Let's see the Devils give away tickets for free to try to bring people into their games and oh so did Dallas, Pittsburgh and other NHL teams. So do we can't the number of FREE giveaways these teams have had? Interesting topic

As for the channel, the difference
between the house holds that get ESPN 2 and VERSUS isn't all that significant

UMMM you sound like the South Carolina beauty pagent chick...You just don't make any sense.

I personally believe that US Americans are unable to do so because some people out there in our nation dont have maps and that I believe our education like such as South Africa and the Iraq, and everywhere, such as, and I believe that they should our education over here in the US, should help the US, or should help South Africa and help the Iraq and the Asian countries so that we will be able to build out our future for us

Come on Paul. Now you're being naive. Popularity limitations of hockey have to do with factors other than how exciting it is. The Commissioner sucks. They missed a full season. Bad marketing.

That doesn't mean the game takes less skill or should be watched by less people.

The NHL began to suffer in the late 90's with slowed play and the only solution was the lockout and a salary cap. This set them back several years, but events like the yearly outdoor game (which is better than the WBC) and a move to a better network when the current agreement is up will return Hockey to the middle of the top 4 sports ahead of basketball. (which has a much better marketing group)

I love Baseball, but watching Alex Ovechkin play is the most exciting sports on TV.

JAPAN

whatever you're smoking, I want some, must be damn effective.

no one goes to the games? try paying attention. The economy has gone to hell and the NHL is still on pace to have a record attendance year, so that blows that argument right out of the water.

As for the channel, the difference between the house holds that get ESPN 2 and VERSUS isn't all that significant. So that blows that argument out of the water too.

Hockey has always been 10 times the sport of baseball. Any idiot can play baseball, very few can play hockey, and even less at a high level. Baseball is nothing more then good hand/eye coordination. You actually have to be an athlete to play hockey.

I love how HOCKEY Fan, all three of you, is coming out of wood works here at FantasyPros911.com.

"It's so exciting," they say. "Great to watch live," they say.

Here's a question for you three, "How come no one goes to the games or gives a rats ass that it might be hidden on TV somewhere?"

"How come your sport is on the Outdoor Channel?" For those who didn't know, yes there is an Outdoors Channel.

When I can start watching hockey on a channel that doesn't start with 100001, because that's where the networks and satellite companies hide it, I might start to pay attention.

Until then Hockey Fan, don't come in here saying a ridiculous statement like "hockey is 10 times the sport baseball is." because that just shows how ignorant you really are. Ignorant means, Lacking education or knowledge, because I'm sure you weren't aware of that.

**At no point is Paul trying to say you are stupid, immature or didn't get your G.E.D at some point in your life. He is just pointing out the fact that as of right now, no one really cares that hockey exists except for in a few cities it's played in and even than many still don't know they have a team.

talent/skill/ability to play hockey then any other sport on the planet. nnThe only thing I can possibly come up with for anyone to not like hockey is you (generalized, not you specifically Greco) are so void of athletic ability you couldn\'t handle playing a game as challenging. nnThere is nothing more ridiculous then football for example. it\'s a 60 minute game, 45 is spent in a huddle, 10 is fats guys laying on top of each other in a pile, and 5 minutes is actual game play. Hockey is 60 minutes of pure action, tremendous speed, football like physicality, and a ridiculous amount of skill. nnAnyway, back to the topic at hand, the World who gives a crap Baseball Classic. It\'s a pointless event. Nobody cares as evident by the complete lack of people actually attending the nonsense. This isn\'t about national pride, i t\'s about MLB making more money. Fans don\'t care, most players don\'t even care. You want it to have meaning, move it to a month after the World Series when players are still in game shape. Even then, nobody would give a crap. Thing needs to go away for the benfit of everyone. IT S-CKS !!!!

Are you kidding me? Did you see the Netherlands Troy? This was a team that had a total payroll of $400,000 that beat a Dominican team that bank over $30M.

This is not a glorified All-Star game pal, this is called PRIDE.

Sorry but how can you even compare this to Hockey a sports that no one talks about. Even ESPN is ashamed that they have to show what they call "highlights" on SportsCenter.

It's going to be nuts in LA and I can't wait to see how these WORLD teams matchup.

Thumbs up to MLB!!! And sorry Yankee fan, but keep J-Roll at SS, much better defender then Jeter.

ESPN is a farse to begin with. Their coverage on everything sucks. None of their "experts" are actually good at their jobs, and a show like BBT has gone to crap since they let Harold Reynolds go.

Furthermore, hockey is 10 times the sport baseball is regardless of the fan following in this intellectually void country. It takes more talent/skill/ability to play hockey then any other sport on the planet.

The only thing I can possibly come up with for anyone to not like hockey is you (generalized, not you specifically Greco) are so void of athletic ability you couldn't handle playing a game as challenging.

There is nothing more ridiculous then football for example. it's a 60 minute game, 45 is spent in a huddle, 10 is fats guys laying on top of each other in a pile, and 5 minutes is actual game play. Hockey is 60 minutes of pure action, tremendous speed, football like physicality, and a ridiculous amount of skill.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, the World who gives a crap Baseball Classic. It's a pointless event. Nobody cares as evident by the complete lack of people actually attending the nonsense. This isn't about national pride, it's about MLB making more money. Fans don't care, most players don't even care. You want it to have meaning, move it to a month after the World Series when players are still in game shape. Even then, nobody would give a crap. Thing needs to go away for the benfit of everyone. IT SUCKS !!!!

Paul, no one in their right mind would ever suggest that the opportunity to wear "USA" on their chest in ANY sporting event wouldn't be one from a source of "pride" standpoint. That, however, seems to be your only point, and we unfortunately do not live in such an idealistic world.

As for ESPN, the networks' amateurish Sportscenter "reporters" possess more than a boundless supply of me-first embarrassment to their efforts to bring us the highlights packages, regardless of the sport. Barry Melrose happens to know his sh**, however, and his expertise just happens to be the NHL.

Paul, no one in their right mind would ever suggest that the opportunity of wearing "USA" on their chest in any sporting endeavor wasn't a "prideful" one.

As for ESPN, many a commentator on Sportscenter has brought embarrassment enough upon that network in reporting their highlights packages as to sufficiently reduce any of them to secondary status.

And the Jeter comments?, I'm realistic when it comes to his defensive shortcomings. Mets' fans should only live long enough (trust me, you/they won't) to see YOUR shortstop put together a highlight reel of his career achievements - and yes, even "a few fielding gems" - when his spikes are hung-up.

K.O.: good points about hockey, but friend, if I ever want to be put to sleep for the final time ..... that'll be when I ask someone to put on a soccer match. BORING! I find Curling more exciting, and that's not saying much. :whistle:

know baseball fans in this country couldn't tell you! :whistle:

So they can't fix these problems and atleast make it a better event?

Why should we pretend there is no problems with it just because they have people wearing USA shirts?

I feel it's safe to say that from a "pride" standpoint, it'll be a cold day in hell before any sports team from the U.S. comes within a galaxy of generating the national fervor that Hank Brooks' kids did nearly thirty years ago.

Wrapping-up, let's face it - this isn't about the injuries as much as it is (for me) about the timing and uneven playing field. Ultimately, this is about ratings, plain and simple. You can't play this "tournament" (isn't that word more aptly linked to tennis of jousting?) in November - oops, NFL is underway. Can't play it in mid-season - a three-week layoff would kill the MLB season. Solution: play in March when (in the U.S.) there are meaningless exhibition games going on. My retort - how many of the games played to capacity?, and of the more well-attended, how many involved the U.S.?

One other question: who won the first Classic?, and who did they beat? Betcha' eight out of ten in-the-know baseball fans couldn't tell you. :whistle:

............ in camp for a limited amount of time and is unable to play much more than three of four innings from the get-go without pushing himself.

As for hockey, Paul, I eat and breathe baseball, but my (and Jr's) next favorite pro sport?, hands down it's the NHL. IMHO, by far the best spectator game to witness in person. Not even close. And it is a disrespect to our Canadian brothers to say that "no one talks about" it. It IS their national sport 365 days a year. Yes, they schedule their AS Weekend in mid-season, but at least every player on the ice IS an All-Star, or did I miss Mark DeRosa's nod last year? BTW, for the record, I agree with Troy and abhor pros playing in the Olympics; 1980 never would've happened had they been allowed to play back then.

To be continued ........

Sorry pal can't do either of those. It' set to 1,000 characters, the limit. Any higher crashes the system.

That's your argument, it's not fair? Come on man, I know you can bring it stronger than that.

The Netherlands beat the Dominican Republic, one of the favorites.

That's a weak argument pal.

So with that, I'm going to take my ball now and go home since none of you will play fair.

If possible, please either remove or enlarge the restriction on the number of "words" in posts. My excellent, well thought-out reply was cut in half, and I was just getting warmed-up!

I'll try to remember what I said and finish-up after this.

I said I don't like pros in the olympics and I agree the NHL should stop breaking for it.

Baseball is not made to be a tournament style sport. Especially this silly double elimination style. The US split with PR and beat the overmatched Netherlands, but PR goes home cause they had to face the tougher competition in Venezuela.

Rich you make a great point. American's are greedy!!! See Jonathan Pap's comments.

That is the problem. Everyone keeps bringing up the money issue. This isn't about money fella's it's about pride. It's about playing for your country.

Stop whining about the timing, we all know about, stop whining about injuries, see any MLB player who hurt themselves sneezing or unpacking a moving van, or hell who hurt themselves during spring training, just stop the make believe excuses you keep throwing up on this board.

HOCKEY FAN your players leave in the middle of the season to participate in the Olympics...hmmm

So you don't think it means anything anymore. Did you hear the players last night? Did you hear King James and the NBA players from the Olympics?

When you wear the Red, White and Blue my friend, it doesn't matter who you are, it means something.
_________________________________________

Oh and for you Hockey Fans, once you get off the O Network, come talk to us. There is a reason hockey's no longer on ESPN.

Ah, shades of my once-revered Rocket, but I digress ............

I agree with Troy wholeheartedly (I've passed-on my distaste for this "tournament" previously to Mr. G.) and will do so once again here.

The timing IS wrong. Looking at this from an American baseball fan's perspective, the playing field simply is not level. Not all, but a number of Mexican/Caribbean-based Winter League WBC participants are in better game shape. The majority of Asian-based clubs players have been in their ST for at least a month before their MLB counterparts reported, as their seasons began in the first week of this month. While it is wonderful that the U.S. is "promoting global baseball", as an owner of one of the highest-paid professional athletes on the planet (pick any name), I'm not particularly enamored with the thought of him injuring himself (or hiding an injury for national pride - see Robby Cano) because he has only been in camp for less than three weeks.

For this "tournament" to have legitimate meaning to me, it has to be played free of restrictions - no chains on number of pitches or the implementation of farcical Olympic Rules that kicks in when the 11th inning rolls around. Please, this isn't softball.

As for the gratuitous swipe at hockey?, the sport that "no one talks about"?, I die for baseball, but IMHO it's the best spectator sport, bar none. Funny, even Japan, a nation that reveres our baseball, enters a hockey team in the Olympics, so just as the WBC is "spoken about" when its time comes, so too is hockey when the Olympics chime in. And yes, while their All Star Game weekend is now more about the Skills Competition than the actual game itself, at least they schedule it when all of the participants are in game shape. You want to see pride?, force yourself to watch the next Olympic match between Team Canada and Team USA in hockey. Thenb tell mme that "no one talks about it".

Truth be told, this "Classic" means a hell of a lot more to the countries outside of the U.S. Wearing "USA" on one's chest in ANY sporting event is certainly something to be proud of - who in their right mind would argue that? I'd rather see the entire roster that represents the U.S. made up of players who when first asked, didn't refuse and in game shape, preferably in late November.

Hockey is talked about, just not in Texas. Hockey is the biggest sport in Chicago right now, and Troy can testify that it's coming back in Boston. I understand that it doesn't have the popularity of baseball, but it's got a solid fan base.

Just wait until the NBA strikes in 2010 and hockey returns to ESPN- then you'll experience the excitement of the Jonathan Toews' and Evgeni Malkin's of the world!

I meant if the game was on ESPN or a regular cable channel, for me we have to pay for the MLB Network. I get the MLBN, but I just watch the games on MLB.TV regardless.

I did care when it was young college and non professionals playing in the olympics. That actually meant something.

Is it nearly as exciting to see "the dream team" win the gold or the US pros win this tournament as to see a bunch of college kids win the gold medal in 1980 against the Russians?

Right there is problem!!! First off, like I mentioned, this is not an All-Star game pal. It's the best each country has to offer to compete for a TRUE World Title in baseball.

You statement above makes it sound like you wouldn't care if Team USA's basketball team wouldn't have won the Gold Metal.

If you don't care that's your right, but your thoughts on this is a glorified All-Star are completely off base. Sorry.

I was using the NHL as an example of a format change not fan base or interest. Would you care more about the MLB all star game if it was North America vs The World? No.

I will watch any baseball I can, so that is fine, but do I care if the US wins? Not really. Much like the NBA and NHL making the Olympics an All Star tournament it takes most of the pride out of it.

- I thought the MLB Channel was on cable?

- And great point on the J-Roll/Jeter comment. Weak ass hit up the middle. Even my girl told me that if he was in there he would have made the play.

Are you kidding me? Did you see the Netherlands Troy? This was a team that had a total payroll of $400,000 that beat a Dominican team that bank over $30M.

This is not a glorified All-Star game pal, this is called PRIDE.

Sorry but how can you even compare this to Hockey a sports that no one talks about. Even ESPN is ashamed that they have to show what they call "highlights" on SportsCenter.

It's going to be nuts in LA and I can't wait to see how these WORLD teams matchup.

Thumbs up to MLB!!! And sorry Yankee fan, but keep J-Roll at SS, much better defender then Jeter.

Well it's easy to call the tournament a success after that game, but it would have been better to hear this same stuff after the US got smacked down with the mercy rule.

It's really just a glorified All Star game and I don't feel any more connected to the NHL All Star game just because one team is now the North America team instead of East vs West.

I would be much more connected if it was a tournament that concentrated on younger players and was a bit longer without pitching restrictions.

i love the WBC and hate the carping from pundits about how players can get injured. if you are an MLB executive the amount of money to be made from publicity far outweighs the small cost lost when players get hurt. sorry to be so unfeeling about this but the publicity and good will gained far outweighs matt lindstrom's season or even his career.

lets recognize it for what it is; a great promotional tool for baseball and a great competition that allows us to see players that we never get a chance to.

Although many of the FP911 staff have voiced displeasure with the WBC, excitement ran rampant among the commentators of The Fantasy Baseball Round Table blogcast last night after Wright's game winning single. I think deep down we're all looking at the USA as our team.
I'm just as happy as you are Paul.

...like the concept, don't like its timing...gotta admit it was a great game. You can't be a baseball fan if you didn't enjoy that one...

1) Soccer is definitely a sport. One of these days I'll convince you to allow me to cover it here!

2) You hate Rollins more than Howard? I've always disliked Howard more.

3) It would have been great if this game was on cable.

This was one of the best baseball games that I've ever seen- it's unfortunate that many missed out on it. I love this tournament because it's the one time that I can root for David Wright and Ted Lilly, although I still root against Jeter.

If Rollins was in, Rios wouldn't have scored on the poor dive by Jeter that failed to keep the ball in front of him.