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24 Jan 2009 |
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| A few months ago I was invited to join Patrick DiCaprio and crew on the Fantasy Baseball Roundtable Show to talk about various fantasy baseball topics, but most importantly to debate Conor Jackson v. James Loney. At the time, no one felt strongly about either of the two guys. They both seemed to be pretty equal, each one still at a young age (Loney is 24, Jackson is 26) and with room for improvement.
It appears however that James Loney has done some incredible convincing of fantasy owners this off-season because his ADP (Average Draft Position) at MockDraftCentral.com is ridiculous. Loney's current ADP is 96, which means that he is the 14th first basemen being taken in drafts. Jackson, on the other hand, is coming in with a 205 ADP, which would make him the 20th first basemen off the board (he also qualifies for outfield at MDC). I'm curious to know why. Unless my issue of Ron Shandler's Baseball Forecaster has a misprint in stats, I don't see why there is such a big difference, especially with the dual eligibility. Ladies and gentlemen, this is simply the difference between winning and losing a fantasy league: value. ![]() Better yet, if you miss out on Conor Jackson, be sure to grab Mike Jacobs. Jacobs, who is now a Kansas City Royal, is due for an increase in batting average after a low BABIP (Batting Average on Balls in Play) in 2008 and has an upside of a .280-.285 batting average, although somewhere in the .270's is more likely. Jacobs is also a better power hitter than either of the other two. Here's proof: In 2008, Mike Jacobs smashed 32 home runs, while Conor Jackson hit 12 and Loney only smacked 13 over the wall. So please, fantasy fans, I ask you to please stop drafting James Loney so early, and instead wait around a little while. There's much better value out there later in the draft, and if you have any reason for taking the Dodgers first basemen so early, please let me know why in the comments below. Question: Which of the three would you rather have: Mike Jacobs, James Loney, or Conor Jackson? Which do you feel presents the most value?
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Comments (19)
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written by kevinorris, January 26, 2009
ewanbrown- Thank you for your comment. I strongly agree with your justification, and I am interested to see what kind of rankings the other sites will come out with. I believe your point plays a big role in that- however, I think we must start making our own rankings. If you go on MockDraftCentral.com, you can alter your rankings very easily by dropping and dragging players. I feel some people are uncomfortable with that because they don't believe in their own judgment, rather they rely on the site's rankings, but when it comes down to draft day, you should be making your own decisions.
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written by ewanbrown, January 26, 2009
The reason I think Loney is being drafted so high is because the default rankings on MDC have him so highly ranked in the first place.
He's #85 overall, so some guys may see that ranking and think that if he doesn't get selected in the 8th round, then after a couple of rounds they think they're getting a steal and burn a pick on him. Another explanation is that in pretty much every public mock draft there is usually at least one absent owner, so while the guys who actually turn up to the draft know not to take him that high, the guy who didn't turn up and is auto-drafting ends up with him in the 8th round.
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written by D Wrek, January 25, 2009
I saw in Onleys blog they might give Teahan a look at 2B. Butler can DH and Shealey isnt very good. I think this situation could sort itself out fairly easily.
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written by kevinorris, January 25, 2009
Paco- Thank you for your comment. You do bring up a good point, one that I have considered in placing a value on Jacobs, but personally, I like Dayton Moore because he was groomed with the Braves and I do think that he has a plan. I think Butler will DH, Gordon will start at 3B, and Jacobs plays first. Teahen can play outfield, that makes Shealy the odd man out. Shealy did spend most of 2008 in Omaha (the Royals AAA team).
I think if Jacobs produces the power that he can, they will continue to play him; other than Jacobs there is no real power threat. In fact, Jose Guillen is the only Royal with more than 75 RBIs. Shai- Thank you for your comment. As far as I'm concerned, Kila Ka'ahuie is an outfielder. Tek22- Thank you for your comment. I agree with the HR/AB rate, it is concerning. Consistency appears to be what you get with either Loney or Jackson year in and year out. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it means that they should be sticking around a bit longer. My guess is that Loney might have a slight edge on Jackson if Manny comes back, but until then, I don't understand spending an 8th round pick on him.
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written by Tek22, January 25, 2009
I think Loney is one of those better in real life players. He's a solid line drive hitter and will be around .300 every year. He'll be a product of his lineup and there's value in that. The problem with Jackson is that his power actually regressed last year. It looks like he had a mini breakout, but he just had more AB's. His HR/AB rate was actually lower and that's not a good sign for me. He also had zippy HR's over the last 2 months.
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written by paco, January 25, 2009
Indeed. And Ross Gload always seems to get at-bats...
Teahen actually has played the outfield in the past, so I suppose he can be removed from the discussion. Gordon is the starter at third, to my knowledge. I guess Jacobs starts at first for now, but most of these other guys the Royals have in the pipeline appear to be better hitters. Why in the world did they trade Leo Nunez for Jacobs?
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written by paco, January 25, 2009
Loney's definitely worth less than Jackson if the Dodgers don't keep Manny - fewer RBI opportunities. Otherwise, I think they're pretty much equal.
Here's my concern about Jacobs...the Royals currently have five 1B/3B/DH types, and only three spots for them: Alex Gordon, Mark Teahen, Jacobs, Billy Butler, and Ryan Shealy. Who's the odd man out? Could Jacobs be on a short leash? I participated in a mock draft with you last week. You are very knowledgeable - good job!
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written by kevinorris, January 25, 2009
Thanks for your comment Steve. Sandoval is available very late in most of the mock draft's that I have been a part of (21st or 22nd round or so). It will be interesting to see what he is capable of doing this year. One loyal Giants fan that I recently talked to believes that he is capable of big things and thinks he's a great value pick for his current ADP.
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written by Steve Shane, January 25, 2009
I dont think hes being drafted at all, but if you want a late round flier Id take Pablo Sandoval, plus theres always an outside chance he could gain C elig.
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written by kevinorris, January 24, 2009
D Wrek- thank you for your comment. I can't disagree with anything that you have said. It appears that we have some very knowledgeable readers here at FantasyPros911.com! The flexibility does help out Jackson, so it seems if anything he would be ahead of Loney.
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written by D Wrek, January 24, 2009
Looks like Im probably agreeing with most of the comments so far. Id rank them Jacobs, Jackson, Loney.
As mentioned Jacobs has huge power potential and even if he does find himself in a platoon, hes obviously on the strong side of that platoon. I really think you gotta get some power at 1B. Jackson is nice b/c of his position flexibility and I think/guess he will hit more jacks than Loney. Loney seems like a replacement level 1B. He wont hurt you anywhere, but he probably wont help much either. There are going to be a lot of people in your league with a better 1B if you own Loney. Theres a lot of good 1B's and I dont think Loney is one of them.
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written by kevinorris, January 24, 2009
Phil- thanks for your comment. I haven't put much thought into Loney's playoff performance, but it still puzzles me why he is going so early. In a 12 team league, you only need 12 first basemen, although you do need corner infielders and a utility player, but I'd rather grab one of the top tier guys or wait for value.
Some will argue the importance of grabbing a first basemen early to fill the corner spot because they feel third base is weak this year, but I've already written an article pointing out the value pick there- Adrian Beltre (http://www.fantasypros911.com/...-2009.html).
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written by phil, January 24, 2009
Loney hit a grand slam to center off Dempster vs. the Cubs and had a decent playoff series, maybe that's a part too. I don't see a reason to wait for 1B anyway, there's a lot of quality guys at and near the top. If i had to pick one of the three it'd be Jacobs, for the HR's and the value pick. I'm in an OPS keeper league and i will probably draft Jacobs late
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written by kevinorris, January 24, 2009
Exactly my point. I know that these kind of articles might be getting repetitive, but people just don't get it! I'm proud that our loyal customers at FantasyPros911.com seem to have their heads on straight. Thanks for stopping by.
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written by Larry Yocum, January 24, 2009
Once a few more owners get burned by Loney, you won't see him going as high anymore.
Everyone remembers his power surge on his call up in 2007 where he hit 15 home runs in 343 AB's with a .335 BA and they want to believe that he is "that" guy. Unfortunately, if they dug deeper and saw that he only hit 1 HR in 233 Triple-A AB's, it might adjust their thinking a little. I don't know why he is being overdrafted, but that is the best reasoning I can come up with. Guys saw those numbers in 2007 and aren't digging deeper to see if it was legit and for some reason are writing off 2008 as the outlier when the stats suggest it was more in line with his norm and should be his current expectations. Throw him in with Casey Kotchman, Lyle Overbay, and Conor Jackson and shake them up to see what comes out. Oh my, it is the same player. At least Loney is younger, so there is hope of him developing more power, but until it happens, guys should adjust their prices. Nice article.
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written by kevinorris, January 24, 2009
Thanks for your response. I strongly agree with the first part of your response. The statistics are very comparable and that's why no one really had a definitive answer on the Roundtable show.
What I mean by that, is that since Loney's ADP is currently 96th, there are 13 first basemen being taken before that. It doesn't mean anything other than that. If Jacobs average does rebound a bit, it's hard for me to believe that they would platoon him, however, the upside is well worth it at this point in a draft, especially when short on power.
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written by ducat2, January 24, 2009
Sorry about being so long winded Kevin. If Jacobs continues to have problems hitting lefties, I worry about a platoon situation down the road.
You state that James Loney has an ADP of 96 which means he is the 14th first baseman taken in drafts. Pardon my ignorance, But I don't understand how that is possible. Please explain. Thanks.
... written by ducat2, January 24, 2009
Kevin,
As a matter of fact, FP911.com doesn't even list Conor Jackson in its first base rankings but has him listed as a tier 6 outfielder to be chosen somewhere between 161-240 which equates with MDC's 204 ADP. But a look at the numbers show he is very comparable to James Loney and may even be better. Both have good contact rates, will not steal more than ten bases, and will bat about .290. However, Jackson has a much better bb/k percentage. Loney has a propensity to hit more ground balls. Jackson is 26 and Loney is 24. Though both will probably hit around 13-15 HR's, Jackson appears to have the greater power potential. Both will not steal more than ten bases. Thus I also cannot understand the wide variance between their respective ADP's. Mike Jacobs of course will be chosen for his power (approximately 30 homers). Most feel his BA is his Achilles but other than a weak first half last year his BA has been around .263. My question with Jacobs is his occasional weakness to hit left-handers which could even result in a platoon situation down the road. The question I have for you Kevin is I don't understand how an ADP of 96 for Loney means he is the 14th first baseman being taken in the draft. Please explain. Thanks. Write comment
Tags: Conor Jackson James Loney Fantasypros911.com Kevin Orris Mike Jacobs fantasy baseball advice value sleepers
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